The Leap with Japa: Dr. David Adamo's Inspiring Odyssey.

Mr. David Adamo Podcast interview 3 U1 0:01 Welcome to the leap with Joppa. 1s The podcast that bridges continents and connects stories. China's as we dive into the vibrant world of international education, explore diverse cultures, and share the extraordinary journeys of students far from home. Whether you're dreaming of studying abroad or already embarking on this adventure through other means. Literature is your companion in navigating the exciting, challenging, and transformative world of global education. Let's leap into today's episode. 2s Hello and welcome to today's episode. Um, this episode is part one of a miniseries for this month of March. It's with Doctor David Adamo. He's a senior software engineer at square. I had a very fun time doing this episode. Um, it's going to cover a history. Part one would be more like history, and certainly then part two would be part two and three. We get into the meat of things. We're introducing this new series to be able to get to meet people over a period. So you don't, so you get more time to sip it in. I hope you would enjoy, uh, this series, uh, in this month of March as much as I did, uh, recording it. And I hope that you get inspired with, um, Doctor David's, um, story as much as it inspired me, primarily because I'm currently a PhD student myself, and he's been through that, um, without further ado, without, you know, taking your time, here is part one of our interview with doctor O'Donnell. Enjoy. 18s Good afternoon, Mr. David. It's a pleasure to finally have you on the podcast. 2s Uh, I know we you reached out to LinkedIn, so thank you very much for wanting to do this. It's, um, a good way to get more people who have experience or in the US to do this. So I wanted to start out that if you could just start out by sharing a bit about your journey from Nigeria, you know, how you how you found your school, uh, what you studied and your experience, you know, just take your time. No rush. 2s Good to hear. Yeah. Um, thanks for having me on the podcast. Um, again, kudos for setting this up. This is as soon as I saw that you were doing this, I was like, we need this. We all need this. Everyone just like us and even beyond. So I'm definitely happy to be here. Um. So great. A bit about me. Um, so I. Was born in Nigeria. Born and raised. I spend most of my all of my early childhood in Delta State, Abacha specifically, and um, mostly because my, my parents were professors at Delta State University. Oh, okay. Um, okay. After the secondary school, I spent about one semester, uh, studying industrial mathematics at Delta State University. Oh, wow. U2 3:36 Okay. Yeah, I always knew that. Yeah. Industrial mathematics is not really what what I want to do, you know? I mean, I got a degree in. I didn't read math, so I'll take that very, very personal. 1s I mean, strokes for different U1 3:51 folks, right? Like math? Nah. So we went to the, um. 2s As a result of a lot of just U2 4:01 different factors, I ended up at Babcock U1 4:03 University. Okay, okay. U2 4:04 One of the driving factors really was, and I'm sure you know this all too well. Strikes U1 4:10 started 1s when I was four years. I went to I went through about two of those. I went through a year in my second year, and I went to through another six months in my third year. So yeah, I know strikes. Oh yeah. U2 4:28 And I knew it all too well. I was having grown up. On the Delta State University campus. U1 4:34 So, you know, you saw that first U2 4:35 hand. Yeah, I was like, I wanted to do a four years on the garden, right? You know, and, you know. For many different reasons. But, you know, privilege, access and so on and so forth. I was able to go to a private university, um, versity to study computer science. Right. Okay. And, um. 1s After four years. Um, I graduated, uh, with first class honours. Uh, in computers. U1 5:01 Okay, now, you took it very seriously. I don't like someone like me. I got a I got a I got a 2.57 out of five. I barely made it second class lower. I have an episode on people who, uh, think that they need a first class to come here, but. Yeah. Go ahead. I just wanted to put that in there. Yeah. Okay, so you got a first class. You U2 5:22 know what? One of the things we learn in life, and maybe we'll talk about it a bit more in this podcast, is what GPA doesn't doesn't make you. It doesn't it's not the GPA that doesn't determine what you do in life. Um, exactly. So, yeah. Um, so yeah, first class honours. Obviously I took it seriously. Can't deny that. And U1 5:43 you worked for it? Yes, you worked for the first class, so you better take it seriously. I U2 5:48 did, and, um, I would I would say that loud and clear that yes, I did. And again, we'll talk more about why I'm willing to say that loud and clear. Okay. U1 5:57 Go ahead. Yeah. U2 5:59 And then graduated, then my NYC National Youth Service in Accra, Ondo State. Okay, and that was a lot of fun. Actually, I really love a career. I like that city. It was pretty, pretty interesting. And then after NYC, I worked briefly as a software engineer at Federal University of Technology at Grant. That's actually where I served. So I just went from to, um, to work in the. Okay. Yeah. Working there and then. 2s Now, this is a very big part of my story, okay? And I don't mind sharing this, so. U1 6:37 Okay. Okay. If it would help people to understand that, um, your background, uh, should not hinder someone. You know, it's it's always very helpful, so please do share. Yeah. U2 6:50 Yeah. In this case, it's it's probably more a story of privilege than anything else, but I was I was blessed to have grandparents who were highly educated, right, U1 7:01 professional and whatnot. U2 7:02 And what typically happens in families like that as well. 1s The expectation is that you become highly educated yourself. U1 7:10 Right? Correct. That's the expectation for U2 7:13 me. Even though I took my undergraduate degree seriously, I didn't want to be a professor. I, I lived, I had seen it, I had it's not wasn't I wanted to build stuff. I had been writing code for some time, thanks to my my dad, my father. U1 7:30 Okay. He introduced U2 7:31 me to computers early on. Um, so that essentially is the reason I'm doing whatever I'm doing today. U1 7:37 Correct. Okay. Um, well, yeah. I just wanted to build software to be a software engineer. Wherever I went in Nigeria, I didn't know doesn't. I just wanted to. I felt I could do it that way. U2 7:47 Yeah, but my my my father wouldn't have any of that, you know. U1 7:50 Oh, he wanted you to go toe the line, U2 7:52 you know? What are you. What do you mean? You don't want to go get a Ph.D.? U1 7:57 Oh. You know, yeah, I can relate to that. U2 8:01 Basically, he's like, he knew exactly what he felt I should be doing with my life, and he wouldn't let me be. So here I am, right? Right. Yeah. Software engineer I was great. I was like chilling man. And then every every day, every time I talk to him is like, so have you filled out those applications yet? Oh, no, U1 8:22 I don't like. Please just leave me U2 8:23 alone, you know? Yeah. Um, but eventually, you know. Parents have a lot of influence. Or yes, sometimes rightly so. Yeah. At some point I was like, okay, fine, I'll just fill out these applications, you know? Fair enough. I still don't want to be a professor or anything, but yeah, I'll take the the blessings I have on the privilege I have right and correct. Okay. Yeah. So I started to fill out applications to graduate schools in the US. Okay. Um, I fill out all the applications myself. Um, and thankfully, because my dad also. 1s He got a lot of his education in the US as well. He was able to provide some guidance and so on and so forth. So I applied to all the fancy schools, you U1 9:03 know. Oh, you did that too. Yeah. Everyone U2 9:05 loved that. Yeah. And promptly got rejected. U1 9:10 Oh yeah. 1s But it was the whole thing. Oh yeah. Um, and, uh, also internet access wasn't easy to come by, you know, back then. That's true. Uh, so I eventually left Nigeria in 2012. I back then, it just U2 9:25 just was difficult to get internet access. So I'm filling out these applications all done online, you know, and. Yeah. 1s We're going to have reliable access. But thankfully yet another blessing. I here was working at the Computer Resource Center at U1 9:40 Twitter, which U2 9:41 is really where all the internet for the internet originates and U1 9:45 the internet for the entire state probably pipes through that place. U2 9:50 So, you know, I would after work, I would stay behind for hours, you know, just using the internet, because at home I didn't have internet in my dingy apartment that I was thinking. So, hey, look at universities, fill out applications. Um, it turns out that my brother also attended, uh, 1s university. So my brother attended the University of North Texas. U1 10:11 Right? Oh, okay. U2 10:12 So that was always on the list, right? Okay. Here already. We already have a history there. So make sure you apply to this school while you're also applying to all the fancy well-known names we we put on a pedestal. Right? Yeah. Back home. So I applied as I mentioned, promptly got rejected from all the fancy films. I did that too. I remember I wanted to do an MBA, so I applied to four of them. I applied to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Duke. I paid $1,000 in application fees and I didn't get in for an MBA. The application fee I paid for eventually doing a master's in computer science was 50 bucks. And here we are today, so I can relate. Yeah. U1 10:59 And so. 1s What do you know as as one can probably predict and thankfully so. UMC was like, oh yeah, we think, we think you're oh, I just remembered something in this story. We think you're good, right? You know, we will. I'll meet you directly to the PhD program from you. Oh wow. The green. Right. So I was like, oh yeah, I'll take that. But most importantly, and even for the school that admitted me, um. 2s But I got some good advice from many people, including my father. Follow the money. 1s Ah, yes. U2 11:35 When you come to the US, you got to survive. And thousands of dollars and tuition is not. It's not being. It's not. What was the worst coming from U1 11:44 Nigeria? Yes. It's not U2 11:46 even they might say or you can't come to school now. Yeah. And they didn't give you any money. And you know another school says come on, the U1 11:56 money is on the money. Yeah. Follow the money always grants. He was like, oh, come for a PhD program. We have, you know, you you get access to teaching assistantships and okay, some tuition help and in most cases full tuition tuition. Yeah. And yeah. Was my brother graduated from there. So and he had some friends I didn't know anybody. U2 12:16 Right. Okay. But my brother had some friends. So. Okay. When you enter your family admission and also said that I will support you, I was like, well, this this deal is settled. U1 12:26 Yeah. Yeah. That's you just you know, you don't you don't argue. U2 12:29 Mhm. Yeah. You want people to give you money right. No you don't um. 1s Of course not free money, because you gotta you gotta work. You gotta do the work. I mean, you U1 12:39 gotta do something for the money. It's U2 12:41 not. So that's how I ended up at, um, University of North Texas in in the PhD program in computer science. 1s And, um, yeah, that was a very interesting five and a half years of my life from that point on, which I know more about, you know, if we if we have the time U1 13:00 and that kind of branches into the next question. So what was the transition like? Because, you know, you spent five years on the program. So what were the challenges? I'm sure there were some challenges, but I mean, the challenges were reduced because you had a brother. So there were some things that you didn't have to kind of struggle with, but still you had your own challenge. So what was that transition like from Nigeria to the US? Yeah. For your studies and how did you how are you dealing with combat? So U2 13:28 to be clear, my brother had graduated years before. I was like, 1s oh, oh, like he was gone, you know? U1 13:35 Okay, okay. Oh, your brother attended this school like years ago. You might want to go there, right? Right. So okay, okay. But of course, that's still, uh, was a blessing to have that. Right. Um, challenges. I mean, first off, even before getting to UMC, as you probably are familiar with, there was a challenge of how do you pay your application fees. U2 13:58 Yes. You know, in Nigeria it's difficult to make international payments, at least at that time. You know, about time. But now maybe. But how do we make international payments? There was the whole visa thing, right? Um, then service fees, something called service. I don't know how 1s many parts of it that were just difficult to get done. So. Right. Um, that was challenging in its own way, but it usually comes down to finding someone in the US that, you know, and so you don't have to even know them. Well, just find somebody to help you and maybe help you make those payments and so on and so forth. So that was one challenge. Then the whole internet thing, right. Then visa, you got to go your visa appointment. That's that. That was stressful, at least for me. It was just like. And we know how it is. When you go for visa appointment. It's just what they ask you all the questions. I remember very clearly. Um. 1s Though during my visa interview they very clearly said, I don't think you have enough money to go for graduate studies in the US, right? Because I had some statements, but there wasn't a lot of money in there. And it was. And I was largely like, oh my God, they're going to reject my visa. It was when I pulled out the offer of teaching assistantship. I'll never forget that moment. I pulled out the letter. I was like, oh, hey, hey, but but U1 15:26 even with the letter, I U2 15:28 just said, okay, they will support me on the interview. I was like, oh, okay, that helps, I don't know. U1 15:37 If that helps. 2s I was like, okay, fine, fine, fine, you know? And so that was close. I was a close one. U2 15:47 So yeah, I could I don't feel the rejection U1 15:49 on me, you know. And then it was like okay that helps. Um, so anyway. U2 15:56 I get to the US first, I need to find a place to stay. U1 16:00 Yes. That's usually. That's usually the very first thing. U2 16:03 Yeah. And I didn't have a wide network of, you know, maybe other Nigerians or it's just I just had. So it turns out, you know, I mentioned earlier that I grew up in. 1s Um, Abacha, Delta State. U1 16:17 Yes. U2 16:18 It turns out that. One of my father's colleagues. U1 16:24 Yeah. U2 16:25 Had his own children at UNT. U1 16:29 Oh, okay. Don't U2 16:30 exist. And my brother was also friends with them, having graduated from there U1 16:35 right from until eventually. Those were like the only people I knew tangentially. So. Right. I think, you know, my brother called them. Was like my own brother's coming to stay with U2 16:46 you. And mind you, I kind of knew them U1 16:48 from kind of knew them from afar, U2 16:50 you know? Yeah. Um, so. And this is, this just goes to show just the connections we make in life. Yeah. You never know when it will come back to determine just how you move. Right? U1 17:00 Very true, very true. U2 17:03 So, anyway, I ended up staying with them for a while, so that settled the immediate concern. And then. 2s Of course I can stay with them U1 17:11 for it. U2 17:13 You don't overuse that, you know. Yeah, I'm grateful for it. There are so many people along my journey that have contributed. Yeah. So, anyway, um. The challenge now is how do I find my own place to stay? Yes. I don't have a credit U1 17:26 score. Okay, well, because we're going to ask for you to ask for an arm and a leg U2 17:32 and they won't rent anything to you. If you can prove you know that. You know. U1 17:36 You know, rental. Rental. U2 17:39 So that was shocking. Number one, understanding the American credit system. U1 17:43 Right. 1s You know, so everyone lives it forever. U2 17:48 Yeah. And as a Nigerian coming here for the first time, you don't have a credit score. U1 17:51 No you don't. 2s So, um. Eventually it came down to I had to find a roommate. Of course, that what? I was going to do that anyway, I didn't have a lot of money for money. Yeah, but then since I finding a roommate, I better find one who actually has a credit score. Oh, well. That's right. So. Yeah. That's true. So eventually, you know, I, I found a roommate. Great. Great guy. Um, okay. Yeah, I did with him for a while. Okay. Um, who he he was, he's American. I mean, he's Nigerian, but an American citizen. Okay, okay. You didn't have a credit score. Uh, or at least I don't think he did at the time. But you did it. He's on third. I was like, okay, I'll serve as guarantor, you know? Oh, wow. And, you know, I was like, hey, look at me. I'm. I'm disguising myself. Thank you for helping me. Right, right. He he helped me go find a mattress to buy. Oh, U2 18:49 wow. So why did you. U1 18:50 What, did you meet him? U2 18:53 Um, that's a good question. U1 18:54 Yeah, it's it's interesting because you'd have to find someone, and then his dad is willing to be a guarantor for both of you. Something very interesting. U2 19:03 I had forgotten this bit of detail. The rest of North Texas had a portal where you can, um, post an entry asking for a roommate. U1 19:13 Ah, okay. So U2 19:15 that was like a new grad student, U1 19:18 right? In a U2 19:18 roommate, you know? And then this guy replies, right, right. U1 19:23 Okay, okay, U2 19:24 okay. That's how that connection was made, right? Amazing. Now that I think about it, it's just right. So much randomness in life. U1 19:32 Oh, you think it's random? It's actually not random. It's just. It's just the way things were meant to play out. Imagine if you did not go on the portal to put in that. True, you wouldn't know, you know. And besides, if you if you didn't try that, you wouldn't know if it was going to work. U2 19:47 That's a good point, you. In order for things to happen for you, you gotta. Yeah. U1 19:52 Act right. You put yourself out there. You know, just like this podcast I really like are podcasts are like, well, I might as well just try, I don't know, I mean, if I hadn't done that, you wouldn't have been talking to me right now. So it all goes to say that you just have to try some things sometimes, see how far it goes. Yeah, but go ahead. Yeah, yeah. So, um, this wonderful, uh, friend is still my friend. Well, okay. Funded. And, you know, his dad was like, well, if you don't have anything in this life to you. U2 20:26 Won't. You're fine. I'll be I'll be gone. So on here's this guy, this random guy, David. Right, right. Probably seems like a reasonable person. Fine. Right. And then he went and got a mattress for his son and got one for me, too. Oh, U1 20:38 wow. I'm U2 20:40 kind people in life, you know, I'm going U1 20:41 to just these people you meet and just help you. Yeah. Um, so that's how I, you know, I got a place to stay. Okay. U2 20:49 Um, this guy was my roommate for many years, actually. U1 20:52 Okay. Um, so that was challenge number two, finding a place to stay created and so on and so forth. And then getting your first credit card was challenging. Who would give me a credit card? Yeah, I don't know if I don't have credit, but I needed a card. U2 21:07 Credit is circular problem. U1 21:09 Chicken and egg problem. Yeah. U2 21:11 But somehow I got that. And you know, off to the races with building the financial, uh, structure for myself, you know, with credit on what? Um. So. Yeah. Well, let's see, what are the, uh, challenges? Hmm? 1s And then, of course, the school in itself. Right? Yeah. We do what I was here for. U1 21:29 How did you what was it like? How how different was it? You know, so you you you've been to Babcock. You you're here. You're brimming with a first class. You know, it's floating on the skies. You're about to take on grad school. What exactly? How was there any adaptation that you had to do? Was it just, you know, easy for you? U2 21:54 Yeah, I think I think you cut off for a moment there, but I'm sure I got the gist of the question. U1 21:59 Okay. Did I cut off? What did you cut out anyways? U2 22:02 Yeah. Some connection issue. U1 22:04 Yeah. So I was saying that, um, you know, how did you adapt to to the whole. Um, you know, to the whole American school system. You know, what were the changes? U2 22:16 Yeah. 2s So that's that. That's a question that really, really touches touches my soul. 3s So I often like to tell, you know, to say that, um. So, you know, just as a as a reminder, I was getting admitted directly to the PhD U1 22:36 program. CHC program. Yes. So, um, the PhD is very different from undergrad. 2s And this U2 22:45 was something I would eventually learn over time, U1 22:48 right? U2 22:49 So here I am, coming. Coming here with in some way a chip on my shoulder. Right? Yes. U1 22:55 Yeah. As expected, I can write code. Yeah, I can write code. You work hard for it. U2 23:01 I'm a good student. U1 23:02 Yes. No. I can go wrong U2 23:06 as much. 2s But, um. I quickly realized that there were a lot of holes. Okay. My knowledge. U1 23:15 Okay. 1s Give an example. U2 23:18 Yeah. So now let's say in computer science algorithms and data structures. Well U1 23:22 okay. Fair enough. I think I was going to say that first. Like what about what about computer architecture. Oh U2 23:29 computer. Oh what do you want to do today? U1 23:33 Yeah. I don't think the U2 23:34 computer architecture. I should know better. Yeah, I'm willing to say it. And I'm learning, you know. Yeah, yeah. And I'm forever. Forever. Killing caps. I'm U1 23:43 sorry. I hate computer architecture. I'm sorry I algorithms. I feel twice. 1s I might grant in my PhD program. I'm still on it. I don't know if I'm going to quit. Um, but it tells you, I mean, I that means I understand how you feel. Yeah. So. Yeah. Go ahead, go ahead. It is tough. Um, so. 1s I realized that because I think this is lesson number one, it's important to be humble enough to realize when 2s we need help. Yeah, and when you need help and when you need to work right after few gaps. So that was one of my first realizations. Um, right. U2 24:23 Taking classes and realizing that. 1s Yeah, I was a great student in Nigeria, but. Right. Not in Nigeria anymore. U1 24:32 Right. So, um. 1s Identified and spent some time. I didn't find those gaps listening to people talk, you know. Right. Talking to people and studying. Right. And learning U2 24:44 from from others where whenever I could. And you know, the goal was. 1s You know, I believe in excellence. So I'm going to do what it takes to be excellent. Excellent. Yeah. Yeah. So that was challenge number one. So here I am trying to take classes because in the PhD program, especially if you're coming directly from a an undergraduate degree, you first take a lot of classes right to build. You know that. Yeah I think I think in U1 25:10 general it's like that. I think in general, because I, I got a masters. But when I started the PhD program, they made me take classes all over again. So I think it's. Yeah, doesn't matter where you're coming from. Yeah. Yeah, I've U2 25:22 heard it might be less so in the UK. You know, some other like I don't know. But U1 25:28 either way I can tell you, I can tell you because I schooled in the UK and you're correct, you don't do classes in the UK for a PhD once you once you get in, you do, um, well, you do some classes, but it's not as rigorous as the US. They emphasize more on your research than the classes. The US classes are the way the US does. The education is you need the classes for you to figure out what you like to do research in. You know they don't want a situation where you are not you don't have breadth and depth kind of thing. So I think that's why it's different, which is why it's more rigorous and in a way more comprehensive and a more comprehensive experience. If you get a CSE PhD from the US because you need to do you need to do algorithms, data structures, uh, computer architecture. If you don't pass those, I'm sorry. You're not going to let you go. Yeah, absolutely. U2 26:26 And those are fundamentals. And we'll we'll talk about those, you know, over time. Right. We'll talk. So hopefully we do U1 26:32 we'll talk this. No no rush like I said. Yeah. Go ahead. U2 26:37 So. Yeah. Um, yeah. Eventually, too. Uh, there was something I. U1 26:44 I came to learn. So even prior to coming to the US right now, I would write blog posts. You know, I was kind of trying to be active in the Nigerian tech scene and just writing things. Um, U2 26:57 and actually, I thought I could write. I thought, I thought I was a relatively U1 27:02 good writer writer, and I think that was true to some extent. But when I got into ag program, I learned that, yeah, I'm not that great, you know? And how did I know this? Yeah. Um, here I am. I have a supervisor advisor, as we call it, in the US. Yeah. And I would write this article. Drafts. Right. You know, I'm doing research, you know, in these small things. And it'll come back with all this red markings, right? Like, great all over the place. The sentence is too long. And I had this weird habit of writing very long sentences. I'm glad I don't do that anymore. I try not to. It's just like the sentence is complicated. It's not clear cut everywhere. Wow. I was like, okay, I guess, I guess I'm not really that great a writer, right? You know? 1s So that was again, lesson number two, you know, and the lesson in humility, like, yeah, understand if you're not, if you have a weakness or you think you're good at something but someone is giving you feedback, you have to be open to it, right? And the reason I'm discussing this on the challenges is it can be a challenging process. Right. You come in with this chip on your shoulder and yeah, you know, you're like, yeah, yeah. You know you know you know that. Great. Um, I think that it takes humility to implement it and make it constructive. Right. Um, yeah. So that was challenging. Um, but again, put in the work, take the feedback. Yeah. You know, write better, write to do whatever you can better. And basically my, my whole five and a half years of puberty were like this. Just discovering that. I got to adapt, I got I have to understand what I'm good at, what I think I'm good at, but probably not actually good at and fix, you know, um, so, you know, I would cut things short a little bit, but the first, U2 29:00 the PhD was a very tough time for me because it was constant. 1s Yeah. You got things to work on. Um. You are not actually. U1 29:14 That good? U2 29:15 Yeah. You know, as U1 29:17 good as you. Yeah. It kind of gives you a second. You second guess everything. U2 29:22 Yes, it PhD is a lesson in. 2s Deconstruct deconstruction. It will deconstruct who you think you U1 29:33 are. Who do you think you are? They constitute you into something or someone else after the program? U2 29:40 Absolutely. And it's rewarding if you can get through it in one piece. U1 29:46 Yes. U2 29:46 And there's a reason. Only 1% of the world. I hope my statistics is correct on my own. I can't say ten sources, but there is only 1% of the world has a PhD. I mean, first, not everyone bothers to try. Yeah, but a huge chunk of people who start a PhD don't finish. Yeah, there's a reason for that. Um, and it's because that deconstruction is challenging. U1 30:09 Oh, I mean, I'm going through it, so I can relate to that. I hate the, um. 2s You, you you come to the PhD program with what you think is a PhD, and then it gets thrown back at you to say, this is not a PhD. So what exactly is it? To some extent, sometimes even the professors don't know what it is. They keep on telling me it's your PhD. Yeah, it's not my PhD. You are supposed to. You think you're going in the program for them to teach you how to get a PhD? No. You were here to teach us about what you want to do. We don't know anything about. I mean, we can guide you. We know what is expected, you know, at the end. But we can't tell you what that thing is. We can't tell you what the research is. It's your discovery. Well, that's how it was different from undergrad or undergrad. You have these classes, you have these exams, you do, you study right? The exams do the homework. Do. U2 31:14 Um, sorry. I think um, I muted for a bit there. But you do the exams, your homework and whatnot and you're good. Yeah I wasn't going to fly you know speak U1 31:22 for you know U2 31:24 you know you're to take exams and get A's. U1 31:27 You don't get it. Why? Um, I was even told if you if you're getting A's in your classes, there's something wrong. You spending so much time trying to get all these classes done, you're supposed to be doing research. If you're alright, if you get A's and B's, go to your masters and you just graduate. But if you want to do a PhD, that was an I was surprised. That's an indicator that there's something wrong. So yes, you're spending so much time studying for stuff you're not going to use. U2 31:52 My advisor told me that many times, oh, see, 2s I'm just remembering. And it was cognitive dissonance for me because I was just like, but I get A's. That's what I do. U1 32:16 Thank you for tuning into this episode of Le Pajama. I hope it brought you valuable insights and stories that resonate with you. Journey. If you have any thoughts to share, questions or want to send a voice note with your feedback, please visit our website at Lead Project IO you will find a contact form there. I would love to hear from you and feature your voice in your future episode. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on your favorite platform, some of which are Apple Podcasts, Spotify. I had Radio or Player FM. Your subscriptions and reviews help us grow and reach more listeners, and I truly appreciate each one of them. Also, check out our merch store on 1s their website for some cool t shirts and hoodies. Perfect for showing your support for the show. Stay tuned for our next episode, where we'll dive even deeper into the experiences and challenges of international education and careers. Until then, keep leaping forward. And thanks again for being part of the Leopard Jaguar community.