Navigating the Tides: Dr. David Adamo's Continuation into the World of Software Testing and Academia

Mr. David Adamo Podcast interview 3 U1 0:01 Welcome to the leap with Joppa. 1s The podcast that bridges continents and connects stories. China's as we dive into the vibrant world of international education, explore diverse cultures, and share the extraordinary journeys of students far from home. Whether you're dreaming of studying abroad or already embarking on this adventure through other means. Literature is your companion in navigating the exciting, challenging, and transformative world of global education. Let's leap into today's episode. Welcome to another episode of leap with chakra. Today we dive into part two of our mini series with Doctor David Adamo, a beacon in the world of software testing and education. Doctor Adamo opens up about the highs and lows of his PhD journey. His groundbreaking work in software testing and the invaluable lessons learned from teaching and mentorship. This episode is a deep dive into the perseverance and passion that drives success in academia and beyond. Join us as we continue to explore the inspiring journey of Doctor David Adamo. Let's leap forward together. U2 1:31 Like you're not here to get Aids. It's a PhD program. 1s Oh, man. But. Yeah. So. So anyway, ultimately, yeah, I U1 1:40 finished the PhD in 2017. December 2017. U2 1:44 So it took you from 2012? Yep. 1s To 2017? Yep. Now all of you are scaring me with this PhD thing I started in 2019. I'm I wouldn't I haven't even advanced yet. 2s Yeah. So let's let's move on. Hold that thought. I know, I know what you're thinking. Hold that thought. Would we move on to, um, 1s uh, your research and teaching? Um, um, how did those roles contribute to how what did you. So we've talked about the research, but what was the teaching like, and how did that how did both the research and the teaching contribute to your professional development? We can talk about what your research is about a bit. I know you do stuff in testing, which I don't like, by the way. I hate testing my code. I don't want anyone to test my code. But, um, you just tell us a bit about your research on how the teaching, the research and teaching shaped your professional development. 1s Yeah. So as you've mentioned, a lot of my work focused in software testing, right, which was the research area I didn't even know existed before, before the PhD. Yeah. To me, you know, testing software was just this thing. You do, you know, click it and see if it works, right. And then I took a software testing class and I was U1 2:58 like, oh my God, this is great. There are all these algorithms. There are things, you know, software testing algorithms. There's all this mathematical stuff involved. And I was like, I like this stuff. You know? Yeah. Okay. And I went to the professor U2 3:12 and was like, you see why why you have to take classes. You see why classes are important for the PhD in the US. Yeah. Go ahead. And then I literally went to the advisor and I was like to the professor. And I was like, yeah, I want U1 3:26 you to be my advisor. U2 3:28 Oh really? U1 3:30 Yeah. And there's a whole story there, but I'll leave it at that. You know. Okay. And then I began the painful one, the painful, but the careful process of changing, of, well, not changing, but of switching, switching or migrating advisors. And I'll just leave it at that. Right. That's something you have to be very careful about if you're in a PhD program, by the way. 1s So anyway. U2 3:53 Yes. Um, yeah. Go ahead. U1 3:55 So I ended up, um, doing research in software testing and, um. U2 4:01 One of the most important skills that, um, research has taught me and contributed to my professional development is writing and writing communication skills. When you do research, you have to write papers. You have to go to conferences and present write presents. Your lab mates, you know, other fellow students, right? You have to present to your advisor. You just you have to explain what it is you're doing. Right. Because correct advisor is going to be is a contributor to your research. So they're going to put their name on the paper if they don't know what you're doing. So yes, U1 4:39 they're not gonna be able to contribute to that paper. They don't know what it is in the first place. So you gotta communicate U2 4:44 it constantly week in, week out. Right. So on and so forth. So. I often say that, you know, while I might say, and I guess we'll talk about this as well. Yeah, we talk about it U1 4:58 or not. The way I write is heavily influenced by the amount of experience I got as part of my research. U2 5:08 Okay. The way I communicate, even right via speech, is influenced a lot by the amount of communication I had to do as part of my research. And this is something I do at work. The way I talk to, you know, I present things at work, um, as a software engineer, the way I write design documents and so on and so forth. Right. U1 5:26 All ties back to the amount of practice I got. U2 5:30 Right? Right. Okay. Okay. And then another thing with the research is experimentation. The kind of research I did was very. 2s It's what some people call, you know, empirical software engineering. Hello. U1 5:44 And it's that, you know, you for the for example, a lot of my research was of this form. Here are these two algorithms. Right. Which one is better than the other U2 5:54 okay. U1 5:56 Now if you're going to prove that one algorithm is better than another, you got to run U2 6:00 experiments. Yes. You know specific criteria with specific factors, independent variables, dependent variables, so on and so forth. So I had to learn how to conduct. U1 6:12 Um. Reliable experiments. U2 6:14 Okay. Okay. All right. U1 6:17 The reason I mentioned this is that has informed my approach to a lot of things, both at work and in life. Just I tend to run experiments, 1s right? Everything, to me is an experiment or an U2 6:30 experiment, right? So, you know, I'm writing code, right? And I need to write tests. A test is an experiment. It's an experiment with the hypothesis that what I've written should provide this output. Now, I write the test. If I write the test and it fails, it means my experiment failed. Yes. So U1 6:48 almost everything can be framed as an experiment. And I found that. To have been a very productive approach to almost everything I do. U2 6:57 Okay. I'm always looking out for what did I change or do to cause potentially caused this outcome? Okay, I U1 7:05 adjust next time U2 7:07 to make sure that U1 7:08 this changes that outcome. Right? Right. 1s Now another final one with research is getting comfortable with rejection. U2 7:17 Ah okay. U1 7:19 This is a skill something everyone needs to build because life is full of rejection. 1s Right, right. When you write academic papers, you submit them to a conference. You know, peer reviewers. 2s I think I'm interested in peer reviews. U2 7:35 Wow. Okay. U1 7:37 I remember one, I know this wasn't mine, interestingly, but I read it because it was for a friend and I think someone was like. The way this paper is written sounds like it was written by a bunch of gerbils. Or is it gerbils? I'm not sure how to pronounce that that word, but some animal or whatever. U2 7:56 Wow. U1 7:58 And the reviewer was saying this because a lot of the sentences sentences were written in passive form. I won't get into all the grammar. And this is part of what you learn when you write, right? U2 8:08 Passive voice. Passive voice. That's true. I didn't know, I didn't know that was for a scientific paper whether that was important. That's that's a that's an eye opener for me. 1s My advisor and I don't know if she ever gets to listen to this, but who knows? You never know. She taught me about active and passive voice, and I U1 8:30 it got drilled in my skull. Right. You know, so but I see U2 8:34 I see that whenever I, you know, whenever I write something and I put it in Grammarly and it kind of forces you to say, hey, 1s you should be writing this in this is this sounds very passive. So wow. On this, what exactly is the implication of having passive voice in a in a written paper? Why why does it matter? U1 8:56 I like how you phrase that. What is the implication? Yeah, U2 9:00 they must be. They must be something that is wrong when you write. Because I'm thinking my mind is thinking that if I write in a passive voice, it sounds like I wasn't the one that did the experiment. I'm reporting what someone else did. That's the only thing that comes to mind now. But what else is the other implication? U1 9:17 Yeah. Um, so. 2s It has a lot to do with the clarity of sentences. U2 9:24 Um, okay. U1 9:26 In many cases, it's not like passive voice is wrong, U2 9:29 right? Yeah, that's that's what it was. That's why I was like, what's the implication? They had to be you use it with intent. Right? You need to understand what you're trying to communicate and whether or not to use passive voice. I'm no expert, but implication. It's just that when sentences are written in active voice, they tend to be clearer and easier to read. Um, so I don't know if this example will will will express this, but if you say, 1s um, the boy kicked the ball. Yes. U1 9:58 Active. Passive. The ball was kicked U2 10:01 by the boy. Yeah. One U1 10:04 sentence sounds clear to me. Maybe that might not be the case for another person, but chances are that if it sounds clear to me, it probably sounds clearer to a lot of the other people. Okay. Um, and that's a simple sentence. This thing, you know, you could get a lot more complicated. Yeah, U2 10:19 but my mind is already calculating how the passive voice could be interpreted in different ways. Yeah, the boy was kicked by the boy. Could mean that after he kicked the ball, it was the wind that took the ball to where he was going. I mean, if you put that in an experiment and said X and Y, you know, I did x and y and Z happened, or Z happened because I did x and y. You know, something? It could be I don't know, I'm just U1 10:46 stopping. It's a simple thing, right. You know, and I would, you know, temper this with, you know, it's stuff that I'm still learning, right. Even you know, I've had conversations with people where we're like, you know, I say this and they're like, oh, is that really passive voice? It's not. And they're differing opinions and so on and so forth. But that's the 1s very interesting 1s subject verb object thing, right? You know, call back to um, secondary school English language. I remember the subject verb object back then. Of course I didn't. I could only care less, but here I am. Yeah, thinking about subject verb object in my work right. Interesting. Right? But, um, yes, the fact that, you know, you want to focus on in, in many cases and in many sentences who did something rather than really getting the, the, the person who is acting to the background in the sentence background, it's the whole thing. Okay. Um, but anyway, yeah, that was a bit of a tangent, but so this was all because this paper that a friend of mine wrote had a lot of passive voice sentences. Someone was the reviewer was like, sounds like a bunch of. Background. U2 11:52 Gerbils wrote the paper because all this was done, so-and-so was done. And maybe it doesn't even mention who did it at all, because that's a whole other thing. Um, so yeah, when you get reviews like that, right, paper gets rejected and you submit it again, gets rejected, and you have to go change it. And at some point you learn 1s rejection is part of life. Just got rejected. So just just because something was rejected doesn't mean it's not good, U1 12:22 right. Just 1s doesn't meet the requirements U2 12:27 or requirements were reviewed it. U1 12:29 Right. So take it improve it. Yeah. Somebody you know U2 12:35 somewhere else that you know you just so you just reject you get rejected. You keep moving. Right. Yeah. And this is again this is just life. Life lessons right. Yeah. So this has this is something I apply at work okay. U1 12:48 And in life. Right. Something someone says yeah, you could have done that better okay, okay. I'm not taking that personally. You know, as long as it's delivered constructively. Right? People feedback and it's just like, oh, you're terrible. No, no, it's not me. You can say my work is U2 13:04 terrible. My work is terrible. Yeah. That's true. Fine. U1 13:07 You could tell me my work is not good enough and yeah, yeah, I will just go back and do it better. Right. That's an attitude that I got from, you know, constantly getting papers rejected or doing a presentation at the lab. Right. And they're like, yeah, nobody understands what you're talking about. U2 13:25 Which U1 13:26 has happened. It happened a lot, right? Yeah. U2 13:29 Um, U1 13:30 anyway, now onto teaching. U2 13:33 Okay. Yeah, that's the research bit. So what about the teaching? U1 13:36 Yeah. First of all, I got paid to teach U2 13:40 and survive. U1 13:44 Right. So as part of the program, I got paid to teach, so that's great. But then it comes back to communication again. U2 13:52 Yeah. Okay. U1 13:53 It's difficult to teach effectively if you are not an effective communicator. U2 13:57 Right. That's true. U1 14:00 And mentorship is a big part of life. But also as a software engineer, as you become senior staff or become a manager, you got to mentor people. Yeah. And mentorship is something that's very dear to my heart. Um, U2 14:16 okay. 1s Whatever mentorship skills I have now. Yeah, originated from the fact that I had the fact that I had and chose to teach U1 14:27 okay, as part of my, um, my graduate training U2 14:31 overall. Right? U1 14:32 Right. And those are skills I still use today. I work as a student here. Okay. You know, in my meetings with people with, you know, with entry level engineers and so on and so forth. The same skills I applied to teach computer science specifically. Yeah, software engineering and programming languages at University of North Texas. Right. Skills I'm still using today today help my colleagues and whatnot understand what I'm doing or. Yeah, okay, do something new. So I bring a lot of software testing. U2 14:59 Oh, okay. Into the whole you know, 1s I U1 15:03 have a whole dissertation in software. All right. But I have to sometimes explain it to people. U2 15:11 Yeah. U1 15:12 So teaching and those skills and then empathy when you teach students. Yeah, you you begin to realize first that, oh, the people who are teaching you too. It's not easy. You understand your your you're talking trash about your professor. Yeah. It's not an easy job to teach, right? Um, it takes a lot of work. And then empathy for students as well. As you interact with students, you see that just because you know something. 1s Doesn't mean it's easy for everyone else to U2 15:43 learn. Yeah, yeah. That's true. U1 15:46 And also, just because, you know, the fact that, you know, something can sometimes be a barrier to your ability to teach it properly U2 15:53 because U1 15:53 you might not be able to put yourself you've forgotten what it was U2 15:57 like, like, for you to learn it. U1 16:01 Yeah. So that's something you, you, you keep an eye out as part of teaching, you would learn and adjust for, you know. Right. Yeah. And then joy. The joy of teaching someone. Someone to learn. Yeah, that's that for me. That's why I actually teach. To see that light bulb moment go up in their eyes when they finally get it. Oh, I understand what it means to get a loop done now. Yep. Yes. Oh, I now understand the conditional statements and why you had those little it kind of tells you to do to want to keep doing it. Um. U2 16:38 Kind of kind of gives you that joy. U1 16:40 It's it's it's a feeling that I, I enjoy. U2 16:44 Yeah. Yeah. It's not something. It's only those who teach will understand that feeling. Mhm. Okay. So we're going to I'm going to move on to the next one. And the next one is about you know, so you've um finished your program now. Uh I'm going to get to that last bit at the end. So that's what we're going to discuss at the last. So but I want to I want you to talk about how you got a job. U1 17:07 I don't know if you did internships. Um, how? You know, what were the techniques you, uh, you employed in getting those jobs? Uh, both for internships and full time for for other guests that I've brought on. Um, and I will keep bringing on will be people that have actually directly kind of told what to do, uh, what they need to do. This is where, you know, you need to go to this conference or that conference. But for you, who is going to be sharing experience for what you had to learn by yourself, either from, you know, what a third party told you or what a mentor told you. What were those things that you had to do to get either an internship or how you got your full time? U2 17:51 Yeah. U1 17:55 Right. So I did have, um, a couple of internships as part of the PhD program. U2 18:00 Okay, okay. Um, U1 18:03 the first one. U2 18:04 Yeah. U1 18:06 That was that was an IBM. IBM research. Yorktown Heights, New York. U2 18:13 Okay. U1 18:14 I applied for to attend the conference, and part of that conference involved submitting your resume, so, you know. Okay, so one other advantage of attending conferences, you get to meet employers. Sometimes some conferences ask attendees, students to upload their resumes. And right employers can go look at that resume bank. So that was this conference I applied put my resume on there. But U2 18:40 the next conference, which one was it? I mean, feel free to mention the conference if you've forgotten, that's fine. But if you remember, you know. So it will help people to figure out, you know, U1 18:51 it wasn't necessary. I think it was, um, okay. 1s Actually, it was probably the Richard Tapia conference. U2 18:59 Um. Oh, okay. You know, there are lots of conferences I don't even know U1 19:03 exists. Um, but. Okay. Yeah. Okay. 1s It was probably. I think it was tough. Yeah, yeah. I'm happier for anyone who wants to Google it or Google later to see if it still exists. And part of that was uploading your resume and. U2 19:18 Okay. U1 19:20 I woke up one day and someone from IBM sent me an email like, hey, I saw your resume, right? Are you interested in an internship? U2 19:29 You might as well. As always. Are you interested like you do? Yeah. U1 19:36 And I was like, I'm more interested in an internship. Of course I am. What are you talking about? You pay me, U2 19:40 right? U1 19:43 So, 1s um. But even I want to backtrack a bit. One of the first things I learned when I got to the US was. U2 19:53 And this came about as a result of conversations with some of my friends who also came to the US and people I had worked. Some of my fellow, um, college mates from Babcock as well, you know, so on and so forth. Okay, now we talk to them and they were like, oh, I did this interview for an internship at Facebook. That man, look, you got to know those algorithms and data structures. You know, I have no idea how interviews were done right in this part of the world. Okay, so I U1 20:19 hear I heard that right. And I was like, hmm. 2s I gotta hit this. This leak code thing is leak code, right? Yeah. And mind you, remember, I mentioned that I. There were a lot of holes in my knowledge, I didn't. Yes, algorithms and data structures wasn't something I had focused on intensively. I passed the classes back home. Yeah, I could write code and build apps and so on and so forth. I was, U2 20:43 I was I mean, that's 2s all stuff. Yeah, U1 20:47 well, there's more to computer science than building an app, you know? So yes, when I saw that app, look, the, the way to, you know, you got to know those fundamentals, right. You got to yes, yes algorithms and days because that's they'll ask you can you invert a binary tree as we like to joke. Yeah. U2 21:04 All the fancy stuff. Yeah. U1 21:05 See less study time. I know how to study, U2 21:10 you U1 21:10 know. So that's step number one, U2 21:13 right? You U1 21:14 find out how the system works. U2 21:16 How. Yeah. How U1 21:17 what does it take to get a job. What are the interviews like. Yeah. And it's fine if you are not good at it. Learning. Yes. So step number one U2 21:27 be prepared for the interviews. So over time, over the years I was practicing leetcode. In fact, um, I had this thing and I'm, you know, I would say I'm still not great at U1 21:39 leetcode problems, U2 21:41 but I U1 21:42 what I did. Yeah. And in fact, um, if you go on my GitHub, there's a repository there that's just full of code solutions. 1s Every morning I'll wake up and solve one leetcode problem, because I knew this was in my area of strength. I, you know, I still have interviews to, you know, today where. Yeah, yeah. I'm not you know, I, I'm not a LeetCode champion, right. Yeah. But whatever I've learned so far was a result of wake up every morning. One little problem. Push it to the repository, go about my day. And I was like, you know, I always say that. U2 22:20 You know, there are people who consider me intelligent. I've never really thought of myself as that. But what I can tell you. Yeah, U1 22:29 that I will read the thing. I will study the thing long after everyone else has stopped. U2 22:36 Yeah, yeah, yeah, that I will claim with my food. Chester's people. 1s Right. So. Okay. Okay. U1 22:43 What I did, you know. So anyway, then IBM messages me. Okay. And of course there's interview. Yes. Right. I'm here recording every day. Right. So I'm ready. So I do an interview for the internship. Yeah. Works out. I talked to a few people and, like, okay, come over to Yorktown Heights. We'll pay for your housing, U2 23:04 transportation, U1 23:04 everything, you know, tech internship and stuff. So that was my first internship. It was great. Met people. Okay. Interestingly, I met one of my mentors there. Oh, okay. Like from Babcock University, he was getting his own PhD in Hong Kong. Right. Oh, I just see, you know, I'm at Yorktown Heights, and he too, he's he's doing his own internship at Yorktown Heights. And I'm like, U2 23:29 oh, what are you doing here? Yeah. U1 23:31 He like, that was great. That was great. I was just it was wonderful. U2 23:35 What what did your advisor think about you going off for the summer and not doing research for him for the summer? What? Because I know I I'm sorry, I, I didn't have that pre-planned, but I wanted to know what what did your advisor think? U1 23:54 That's that's you asking a question from experience? U2 23:59 Oh, yes, I wanted to know. U1 24:01 I mean, you don't have to say it, but but, you know, for people that think that, oh, this PhD are just go off for three months. And your advisor, I just watched. Uhhuh. Okay. All right. U2 24:12 You will come back. So of course, there was, you know, that whole thing of, you know. Yeah. This is time you could have been spending doing research. But I was lucky to to have an understanding advisor, interestingly, who you know, she would always she was she was just always supportive. Okay. U1 24:31 I have no U2 24:32 I hear once you have a good one you keep it. You know once you have a good advisor, you keep that advisor. U1 24:39 My advice is perfect. There were challenges, you know, in the advisor advisor relationship, but which is it was mostly about, well, if that's what you want to do. Yeah. We're going to make the best of it. Right. And this comes up later on May we may or may not get to talk about it in depth. So anyway. 1s She was supportive. Okay. This was also the time when you remember this fg thing was it was hard for me. I haven't made much progress with my PhD U2 25:08 at this point. Like U1 25:10 this was like in year three. Like I was U2 25:12 slacking, you know that. But you know, just like you want to go do an internship, 1s understandably, there's money involved, right? Again, look, we don't. Yeah. U1 25:23 Some people have money. Why do you have money to throw around? I was depending on the goodness of the school U2 25:30 and U1 25:31 possibly into teaching, getting paid, you know. Yeah. And here I am. An internship wants to give me thousands of dollars. I was like, I need this money. U2 25:41 It's a no brainer, you know? U1 25:42 So I'm sure she understood that, right? So. Right. So anyway, I go to IBM. Come back. Great experience. I meet someone, a mentor of mine, and, you know, he's great. Um, and if he listens to this, he knows who he is. Um, okay. And U2 25:58 great experience. U1 26:00 Great. Get a feel for the bit of tech money. Right. And, like. Right. U2 26:04 Right. You you started on the U1 26:06 program, you know. U2 26:11 But U1 26:11 anyway. So I come back. Yeah. Struggle to do more research. Second internship. 1s Is. And this was, this was this was a defining internship. U2 26:21 Okay. Okay. U1 26:23 Fine. But again, I think your question was how okay, how did I get these internships? U2 26:28 Yes. U1 26:29 So so you've explained the first one. So, you know, people have an idea that you need to make sure that you go for conferences. You would notice also notice that you never mentioned I applied online. You had to network. So there's this thing there's this component where applying online is good. But going to actually see hiring managers and recruiters that actually have open roles goes a long way, U2 26:56 you know, so you don't just, you know, just you can keep applying every day, but once once you have some form of gathering, just go. Mhm. Mhm. U1 27:09 Especially as a student, especially as an international student. U2 27:12 Student. Exactly. Especially as an international U1 27:14 student. As an international student you don't have the same privileges U2 27:19 as. Yes you don't. U1 27:21 Students that are native to the country you're in. You have to hustle harder U2 27:26 because you have. You have things called statuses and EAD cards and what's, you know, do you need work authorization? But yeah, tell us about the second one. And then we would, you know, would get will bounce through what you're currently doing. And then that very interesting last question. So go ahead for for the second for the second internship. How did you get it. U1 27:49 Yeah. So a bit of random facts that is very interesting about my career. Yeah. I've applied to many jobs so applying is good. Please apply applying 1s in U2 28:02 this position discount that. But but U1 28:04 interestingly, I think about through my internships and even my full time jobs, every job I've held. 2s I don't think it's a result of anyone I applied to. Yeah, yeah, that's that's one of the things I noticed. U2 28:20 Yeah. You're applying the punches. It's not that I don't get any response, but maybe interview doesn't work out or whatever. Yes, I failed or not. The ones I applied. Which is strange, now that I think about it. Um, but yeah, so I say this because here I am working on my research again, automated software testing. Basically, a lot of my time in school was spent. How can I just have this tool where I say, here is my application on my website to test it. I don't have to tell you what you know. It's algorithms, AI, blah blah, blah blah, right? So I'm doing all of this. One of my projects, my research project, I called it Auto Droid. Um, okay. Uh, does the name I came up with, I don't know how clever it actually is. Um, and anyway, so I'm working on these things, writing papers, so on and so forth, and then someone messages me on LinkedIn from. U1 29:13 From a company, right? Um, I don't, you know, probably don't need to mention the name from a company on. It's like, hey, we're working on this special project, U2 29:23 right? Um, the special project is meant to do some testing related stuff, automated test. And we're trying to do some kind of intelligent automation type thing. Oh, wow. We're looking for people to join the research team, and I see that your research seems to be in that area alone. Mind U1 29:42 you, I hadn't graduated yet. I still had, like. And I hadn't even made a lot of progress towards U2 29:47 that. Again, you haven't any U1 29:48 progress. Sorry. This was a if I'm gonna say it this way, this was a hopeless time for me. Oh, wow. So, yeah, I was at the point where. I was like, I don't know that I'm cut out for this PhD. The reason I have a master's degree, you know, U2 30:05 just U1 30:07 the reason I have a master's degree is that I got to a point in my PhD was like, I need to hold something, U2 30:11 you know, just. Wow. Because I noticed because I remember checking your LinkedIn. So there were two things that came popped up to me when we started it. First of all, you said you got admitted directly into the PhD program. So the expectation was you're going to get a PhD. The natural thinking, I thought, when you check your LinkedIn was you came in for a master's, and then when you finished, you completed the PhD. It's the reverse. It was the inverse. You came in for the PhD, but you actually had to hold on to the master's first because like you just mentioned, it was probably a very dire time, like, okay, maybe I might not even graduate with this PhD. Mhm. U1 30:53 Mhm. U2 30:54 So I don't feel bad. I don't feel bad all of a sudden because oh man, I'm at that point right now where I'm saying am I sure I want to do this. You know I have a master's already. I'm not. Anyways, that's I don't want to preempt our last question, but yeah. Yeah, U1 31:09 I'm sorry if I keep going on as I talk this. That's U2 31:11 fine, that's fine, that's fine. I mean, it's it's good anyone is listening. At least wait till the end to hear what we're what we're talking about. But yeah. So so they reached out to you saying that automated testing. Okay. Go ahead. Yeah. And, um, so I was I replied to that message and I was like. U1 31:29 I'm still in school. U2 31:43 Thank you for tuning into this episode of Le Pajama. I hope it brought you valuable insights and stories that resonate with you. Journey. If you have any thoughts to share, questions or want to sell your voice note or your feedback, please visit our website at Lead Project IO, you will find a contact from there. I would love to hear from you and feature your voice in a future episode. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on your favorite platform, some of which are Apple Podcasts, Spotify. I had Radio or Player FM. Your subscriptions and reviews help us grow and reach more listeners, and I truly appreciate each one of them. Also, check out our merch store on the Woodstock website for some cool t shirts and hoodies, perfect for showing your support for the show. Stay tuned for our next episode, where we'll dive even deeper into the experiences and challenges of international education and careers. Until then, keep leaping forward. And thanks again for being part of the leaper community.