From Academic roots to Silicon valley: A leap from Physics to software engineering

LWJ Tito Interview U1 0:02 Welcome to the leap with Joppa. 1s The podcast that bridges continents and connects stories. China's. As we dive into the vibrant world of international education, explore diverse cultures, and share the extraordinary journeys of students far from home. Whether you're dreaming or studying abroad, already embarking on this adventure through other means. Libra is your companion and navigating the exciting, challenging and transformative world of global education. Let's leap into today's U2 0:36 episode. U1 0:41 Welcome to this week's interview episode with a friend of mine, Tito. I have known Tito for quite a long time. We started out writing C programs in 1999, I believe. Um, right after college. Wrong. Not college, right after high school. And, um, he's been a very good friend. So I interviewed him for this session because he recently graduated from Prairie View A&M, and he's going to be talking about his experience. Um, he's going to also be outlining, you know, the steps he took. To, you know, getting his new job. I want to apologize in advance for some of the audio quirks trying to still balance out this thing. So there might be some audio audio wonkiness towards the end. I apologize in advance. I welcome you to this episode, and I hope you enjoy listening to it as much as I enjoyed doing it. Thank U2 1:40 you very much. Enjoy. 13s Go. U1 1:55 Hello, Tito. How are you? 1s What is that? Go ahead. U2 1:59 Are these out there? Yes. Okay. I'm finally 1s starting to. I introduced myself first. U1 2:07 You know, just a little. Tell us about the soul or the background. Yeah, just start with that and then we can move into. What motivated you to pursue your studies in the U.S.? Okay, U2 2:17 so my name is teacher. No, no. Um, I just finished my masters in from Stanford Mission Systems. My bachelor's was in physics. Electronics. Uh, did you graduate? So my bachelor. I graduated in 2007. Oh, okay. Yeah. Then I had a stint in industrial automation for nine years. Okay. It seems to be in 2012 and, um, 2019 U1 2:52 that we worked with a U2 2:53 version. 2s Of automation. So we then mainly scalar applications Hmmi plc stuff. Um, most of the projects like oil and gas and gas. Yeah. So um, did that. So before that I did some freelancing, then moved into automation, then did a bit of consulting for two years between 2019 and 2021, uh, before moving to the US for grad school in 20 and January of 2020. Okay, so U1 3:29 so I've known you for a while. I've U2 3:31 known you for close to. What says what? 16. So what, 24 years? Yeah, 25 years. And I know I have tried a U1 3:40 while to get to come to U2 3:42 the US. Yes, U1 3:43 I tried for at least three years. So what exactly eventually changed your minds? U2 3:51 Um, well, it's a combination of factors, really. 1s Uh, first of all, this is probably my third attempt of the Masters. And finally, concretely, that I actually don't do that. Okay. And until that time, okay, a lot of work. U1 4:06 Why wouldn't you? Why did you do this? So the U2 4:08 first was in, um, Non-designated University. Oh, my. Says in industrial physics. Okay, then. Is that okay? Um, because work at the time was intense and, frankly, more fun than school, so. Okay. That's U1 4:24 right. Open University. U2 4:25 Yes, I heard 1s that. What? Masters in information technology. Did you start it? Yeah, I actually finished coursework. What was left was my projects. And what happened work. Well, actually. Okay, I'm kind of like lost. So when I had, when I couldn't go back for like a year or two years, you kind of like, you know, and I'm like, no, uh, the let's say interests now or. Yeah. So what's, you know, so I just so I always have that lingering thing like, you have to actually go back to principle at some point. Okay. That's one uh, so, 1s um. 2s Well, I'd say, um, for better opportunities, you know, um, to test myself in a different country, in a different system. There's the different industry. Because I was kind of like moving from the industrial, um, but, you know, software engineering, commercial sales and stuff, so. Okay. Yeah. Um, I'll say those are like the two main motivations for, you U1 5:34 know, so I didn't convince you eventually. It wasn't me that convinced. Um, U2 5:39 well, there was a way that the back of my mind. So he was like one of the words, dude, he's. Oh, well, Egypt, any of you like, you know, you would actually fit in this place, then you'd. This would be a good place for you. Um, you would actually be able to, you know, acclimatize and, you know, make a mark. And it was, you know, it was basically a good place for me to actually be in. 1s Uh, yeah. But there was they were I had doubts, um, I was going to U1 6:11 follow them again. You had the dogs in you. You thought we had too many guns, you know. U2 6:16 Yeah. That was that was one of those yes issues. Well, you know, because when you watch when you watch news media from outside the US, that's you get that feeling like, you know, they're going down every street corner or something. You don't believe me, but fair enough. U1 6:31 I know that's a different conversation for a lot of yeah. U2 6:34 All right. Okay. Well, uh. Yes. What? Are you. U1 6:37 Okay? So how how instrumental U2 6:40 was, uh, the guidance and mentorship, you know, U1 6:44 particularly in your choice, your U2 6:46 students study in the US. Okay, so, um, I'd say mentorship on your part was played a very important role. First of all, um, with the options of schools to go to. Okay. Um, you know, you you help me actually make a pick. Uh, how many schools did U1 7:08 you applying to? I've. Is U2 7:10 it true? I don't know. I'm pretty lonely. Yeah. And I can actually remember the second one right now U1 7:17 as Texas A&M when it U2 7:18 was Texas A&M. It was in another state. I'm trying to remember though. It was sort of north. I can remember New York Maine. Ah I can't I can't remember okay. I can't remember I don't, but I applied to two schools. I got 1s the admission from Prairie View. Okay. Um, I think admission from the Central School. I think my application was kind of like incompletes. But when they gave me the admission, I kind of like just my outlook really got really pretty. So I basically, um, decided to, you know, go with Prairie View. Um, then also with my application process. Right. Uh, yeah. I still remember you. You basically completed my service fee. Yeah. I mean, I remember I'm going to pay for that. Why did I pay for it? Okay, I remember going to one of the small malls then. U1 8:17 Yeah, that's where the service fee U2 8:19 was paid. Yeah. Um, U1 8:21 so how did you what was adapting? Like, you know, you're coming to a new country. This thing wasn't a visit. I know you've been here and visited before, so this was different. You're coming to school? What were some of the adjustments you U2 8:36 had to make, both culturally and academically? U1 8:42 How was that? Like, how long did it take? Um, okay. So, um, I'll start with academically first. Okay. Um, so it had been how many years since the last attempt at school, right? Uh, so it was. Must have been like 2015 was the last. When was the. When I tried the Open University thing. Uh, so it was like seven years. Okay. Um, yeah. Initially it was it wasn't easy because, you know, you have to get back into school mode, right? Um, tests, assignments, you know, you have to go back to the group. But but a lot of when, when you've gone past your first midterm, you kind of like, get back in the groove. So yeah, it was it was difficult initially at first because. Yeah, like going from my work environment back to school. I like learning, but getting it wrong. Uh, I mean, not necessarily like having to prove what I've learned from the test that I guess, you know that, like, now, nobody likes exercise. Yeah. So, U2 9:44 you know, it's back into into that school and back home was initially difficult. But after the first, uh, midterm, I think what about U1 9:55 what about culturally? What about things like food? Oh, yeah. So culturally, um, things like food. I cook, right? Um, because I'm a little salt, um, person, like. Yeah. How about salty? It's almost salt on the fats in the food. Um, so, so U2 10:16 so you don't eat food? No, I do. Once in a while. I mean, it's delicious. The U1 10:22 subway's and the. Yeah. U2 10:23 So. Yeah, once in a while, I feel. Exactly. Why do I, like, do that? Um, you know, it's just I'm not I'm not this extra, uh, pristine person that, you know, I have to always eat healthy. I know once in a while just to have a taste of the burger. It's. I mean, it tastes good. 2s So let's, let's, let's talk about, um, your internship. You you recently completed an internship at Microsoft or the summer. So we're we're talking about the summer of 2023. Yeah. What U1 10:59 were your, um, tactics and approaches that you can use to secure your internship? So this is this is vital because what I'm trying to do, um, with people that listen to this podcast, is to give them tricks. Uh, and I'm aware that there were certain things that you did and certain guidelines that I also provided. So I just wanted to walk us through, uh, those tactics and approaches to secure your internship. Octave. U2 11:29 So, um, for, for me, 1s um, I think for most people, you should have already your mind where you would like to work. Okay. Um, it would be one company would be more than one company. You should have a list of where you would actually love to end up. Okay. U1 11:49 So for you, what was that list like? So for me, it was pretty much Microsoft. It's only Microsoft at Intel and Intel. Okay, so it U2 12:00 was Microsoft and Intel for U1 12:01 me. So you're saying you didn't apply it to other places? U2 12:04 No, I didn't, but it's like my my my how I put it, my it's more like. And they asked you where would you want to work. Right. It was Microsoft Orlando. But 1s I U1 12:19 ended up going to Microsoft people. Was there a reason okay. So let's, let's let's step back and say how many applications did you make. Yeah. So, so for your U2 12:30 intentions, um. 2s I can't U1 12:35 give us a number. U2 12:39 Okay, U1 12:39 so I remember I did the U2 12:40 spreadsheets I went through, you know, track chart. And the last time I, I remembered how many, um, applications. Well, that spreadsheet. Well, in excess of 60. U1 12:56 60. Yes. Okay. That's 60 that you kept track of U2 13:01 60. I kept track of records at some point that pretty much because sometimes when you actually see something on your phone. Yes, I need that file from your phone and you don't have the spreadsheet with you at that time. So you got some things went, didn't get written to the spreadsheet, but things are having to spreadsheet is U1 13:16 here because I remember when I did mine, um, the. December of 2015. U2 13:23 Yeah. I was elected U1 13:25 of between 250 to 400. U2 13:27 Wow. Yes, I. So I was U1 13:30 just surprised. Was 61 the ones. Yeah. U2 13:33 So I would probably say I pretty much probably crossed the hundred mark. U1 13:38 Okay. So the 100 mark and this were. Where did you get the where did you get the the companies to apply to U2 13:46 you. Um, so it was a mix of so many things. So, um, simple Google searches can actually get you. Yeah. Um, LinkedIn was very, very good. Okay. Um, handshake, handshake. U1 14:00 So that's the handshake is U2 14:01 the tool that U1 14:03 the university is running or where the companies go and they U2 14:09 just concentrate on the U1 14:10 signs. You listen to you, U2 14:11 your, uh, your resume and stuff. Okay. Yeah. So, um, handshake, um, way up. Okay. Way up. Yeah. From the head of. Well, yeah. Well, actually, help is actually good. Um, then even within the university, you know, um, looking for on career services and stuff would actually send you, um, you know, emails with job applications from time to time where in job postings from time to time. Right. Um, then there are career fairs covered in school. Okay. Uh, how many career U1 14:46 fairs did you go to within purview. U2 14:49 So the interview I attended two. Okay. First one in the, um, spring of 2022 when I just come in, just to experience. Experience? Yeah. Because, U1 15:00 you know, so you do advise people to do that? Yes. U2 15:02 I'd advise that even if you are not eligible for internship that summer, still music career fair. So you don't have you get the hang of knowing how to present, uh, how to pitch your resume, pitch your skills, how to pitch abilities. Right. Um, to recruiters and stuff is very important. Even if you don't get a role at that point. But. 1s And builds confidence. You know, you're getting, you know, the, uh, let me do groups of you, um, pitching yourself, pitching your abilities to companies. So that was, um, a good place for me to start. It was kind of, like, possible to, uh, rejig my resume. Okay. You know, uh, because, um, school kind of, like, sends you, um, the format of resume that is, um, you know, acceptable in industry, you know, and, and the HR systems that actually processes resumes and stuff. So you don't have to you start changing stuff 1s in a structured bring everything to a single page, okay. Make sure that important information stands out. So yeah. So that first paragraph was actually good for that. Okay. Um, then during the summer of 2022, but uh, which was my first summer here, I kind of like now changed, um, jobs within school. So I started working within a development role. Luckily for me at school is, um, is, uh, runs on Microsoft stock. Okay. So I got to sharpen up my skills with dotnet or Azure. Um, so yeah, I actually was intentional about my why U1 16:48 I did something else came around that really reinforced. You got a job that allowed you to. U2 16:53 Exactly. So. Okay, U1 16:55 so so that's so for what was the interview process like for your for your Microsoft internship? Okay. So U2 17:04 for um, Microsoft U1 17:07 how many stages to do. What kind of questions did they ask. You don't have to be specific about the question remember. But so first thing U2 17:14 first, um, you with the roles usually come out at the end of July or August. Um, it's usually I advise anyone who wants to apply for Microsoft to actually apply early, okay. Uh, so that you get a shot at getting the interview this U1 17:33 year. So this this was this was the summer before. Yeah. So U2 17:37 this was the start of the process. This is also about U1 17:39 2022. And then they they bring up the roles for summer of 2023 in here in the fall okay. So so you have to give ample time okay. So the timing so you apply it okay. So apply U2 17:53 it. Um for the roles of software engineer um in terms of engineering intern. Um then I got so the first stage you get to the phone screen. Okay. Uh, military recruiter. Exactly. The recruiter wants to know. Um, basically just wants to know about you or about your abilities, you know, ask you things about your resume, you know, projects you've worked on. It's basically trying to tie it, as in matching with your resume to ensure that, you know, okay, this person might be a good fit for, uh, my team at Microsoft. Okay. Now, so if you get past that stage, then you have the actual interim. We have the interview. It's in two stages. That's for software right now. Uh, for software engineers, you have um, the first stage is, uh, you have programming coding questions to coding questions instead. U1 18:50 What kind of critical questions needed? Um, so using the code standard, we probably get a 1s little U2 18:59 easy and a little medium. U1 19:01 So U2 19:02 yeah. Um, then the second part is system U1 19:06 design systems. So how much time do you have to spend on lead coding? Did you have a framework for you to practice lead U2 19:13 code? Yeah. So um, I, I, I think I was using it was a code signal right now. Okay. Yeah. So school signal has this thing where you have, um, easy, medium, not hard. So when you're doing this, move through to the next talker. So I was doing that. Uh, how much U1 19:33 time did you have to invest in them? Hmm. U2 19:36 So I didn't I wouldn't I also actually, um, was marking how much time I needed. Okay. U1 19:43 Yeah, well, I didn't U2 19:44 write the number of questions. Never. U1 19:46 Oh, so how ballpark? How many hours did you think you put into? 1s And soon get yourself up to speed with the basics and understanding what is needed for for an interview. 1s Either in terms of time or in terms of months U2 20:04 and things like. Yeah. So maybe I'd say for most of the summer. Right. Uh, I did 1s say half of the summer. Okay. I did the core signal questions. Um, I also had I also thought this book unboxing the Kraken. According to the interview I saw that did some puzzles, not I didn't do all the questions in the book. Right. I did some of the questions then, um, for system design. I don't think I read about the system design. It does help that my work, um, in the industrial automation. Right. I knew what to do with them, you know, interfacing with systems, uh, integrating different U1 20:52 systems together. So, yeah, I knew how to send data U2 20:54 from one to another back. And so that was kind of like, uh, and what's it called? Um. Getting knowledge from different from past experience is kind of like help me to okay the system design. Um, question, which was my favorite thing at the end of the day. U1 21:13 Okay. So for the for the coding question, did you solve both of them? U2 21:18 Um, so I solved the first one. Okay. Um, but with um, the second, the second one, we ran out of time. So I started part of it. Um, the interviewer was like, okay, because we spent some time, you know, talking to spend some time getting to know, okay, so you know what I was going to do? The second one, I was gonna go back and change the second question, but it's like we're out of time. But I don't think so. Um, so so he said, okay, I should explain the rest of it. Right? And since I knew what he was asking me to do, I kind of like explains, okay, this is what I need to do next is what I said. Yeah, that's that's what he was actually looking for. Okay. So I got past that. And the next part was system design with an engineering manager. Okay. So that's another hour and a half of design, um, a system. Okay. U1 22:17 So, um, so what was your. 1s Key takeaways from the leadership U2 22:23 experience. Um, and how U1 22:26 how has that helped you in your career U2 22:29 development so far? Um, so, um, key takeaways. One, I'd say Microsoft is a good place to work. Um, because I think I like the culture anchor and, um, they're good. They're they have this thing called the group mindset where there is emphasis on your ability to learn. Okay. Right. So if you do not know something or you do not know a tool that you've been assigned preferences on, you'll be able to learn that. So I'd like to work 1s on oh, you don't know this too okay. So this is probably not right. Becomes a problem if you can't learn the tool and apply it. And so there's that. So it wasn't good. And this is using new technology. There is a course to actually learn it well and apply it in your work. So it was a link to an intro to me into a big organization like that. So, you know, there were new tools I had not used before. My project was in an area that I had to also do some, uh, you know, uh, knowledge, uh, governance before actually doing any writing the first line of code. Right. I probably spent like 2 or 3 weeks, you know, studying, um, books, studying reading papers and stuff before actually going into the actual projects, you know, and writing code and all that stuff. Um, then I'd say my git skills became even better because U1 24:09 you had to use a lot of, um, 1s git commands to analyze, and you had to do a lot of git fetches and you're as long as done, um, a lot of rebase. And then you had a rebase spell or sometime where things don't align. Well. Yeah. That's that's that's good. Um, so you, you picked up a lot of new skills, but I wanted to ask how important is U2 24:34 a manager. 1s In once internship experience. Um, so 1s advisor is very important. Um, because. Sometimes you might actually think that you know the right track and you're doing everything wonderfully well, right? But there might be something that you are missing, and if you don't have a good manager will tell you, okay, you might need to add this or you might need to improve on this and stuff like that. Then you might find yourself making mistakes and there really isn't anybody there to warn you. But, uh, Microsoft has this system where they give you a manager every time you have a mentor. Okay. Um, so I had the mentor was, you know, very good. I mean, you know, we talked every day. Okay. Um, even when he was not everyone is not in the office as above. There always is. Only teams necessary, you know? So it's someone who talked through, um, if you had any questions, he was ready to answer. So then my manager, also, um, is also available via email because he's very busy. So if you have questions about shooting meetings, message or you send him my email. But he always made sure that there was a one on one meeting, just name him every week. So that's there was a one hour meeting every week between me and him. Ask any questions? This course, don't tell him how you know how a project is going, if I have any issues and all that stuff. So he was pretty good at that. That. So if you have a good manager kind of makes things easy. Okay. It's like you sometimes have to go, um, you might spend more time trying to figure out if you have a good mind. I have a good mentor where I can actually cut down that time. You know, I don't know if that's considered, you know, finish your project, get work done faster with that sort of support. So this leads me to another question. And this is regarding networking. So I was networking in this internship journey and in your professional journey. U1 26:45 And do you have any tips for effective networking? U2 26:48 Hmm. Okay. So, um, for networking, um, first I said that I did more networking, um, without looking to Microsoft U1 27:02 Word within Microsoft. U2 27:03 Yeah. So how how effective is that? Because, I mean, the transition into full time was simply the talk about. But there must have been something you did effectively. U1 27:14 Well, so how I'm saying how important is that? U2 27:16 Yeah. So, uh, it is important because one first things first with networking, um, at an organization like that, you get to see, um, you get to hit people's different journeys to where they are. Right? Um, within Microsoft Leadership Program actually has a networking program. Okay. You are you are encouraged to speak to somebody every two weeks or weekly, depending on the phone assigned to you so that they are matched with somebody. Oh, okay. So the senior engineer, the manager, something you could actually talk to. And yeah. So, um, the whole point is, you know, you get to learn from the person, get to ask the person questions. Okay. Did you get here? What did you do? How do you cope with work? Um, we've been here ten years. 15 years. How is it fresh for you every day. So those questions you kind of, like, gets a feel of, you know, what it would be like to work in the office of Microsoft long term, right? Um, so, yeah, for you to do that, then also, um, there's networking within the fellow interns, you know, from different school or different backgrounds or different interests. They might working on different other projects that, you know, are sound exciting, but you are working with them because you have one project and one would like to learn about what they're working on, the impact and all that stuff. So for me, networking is important because it broadens your knowledge, right? You get to learn a lot of stuff that you wouldn't necessarily. See, you know, on the website or in the book you're learning based in learning from people's experiences in real time. So, okay, it's it's a good way for you to learn from you to like, get the hang of, you know, the industry, your company and your career 1s presently and, you know, going forward. So U1 29:04 we're trying to do Facing you a journey from being a student to be a software. Is there anything, you know, what was that transition like. So your students and then now you're a software engineer entered. So how did you how did you overcome them if there were any challenges? Ng okay, U2 29:21 so for me. So thankfully that job I had stopped me in the summer at school where it was developing software for the College of Agriculture, where, um, it kind of like, um, it was kind of like a stepping stone in career. So, um, you know, things like deadlines, you're expected to finish XYZ by 1s date. Um, you know, there are features that are expected for you in the RPA building, right? You know, the the technologies that you should, um, you know, be able to incorporate into what you're doing. So it was really the the role was actually, um, in a very good stepping stone to, uh, you know, um, being, uh, monitor to the place like Microsoft. So in terms of the technology, it was similar to what I eventually used at Microsoft. Okay. I was getting exposed to tools that, you know, like tools on Azure. Okay. Uh, also, uh, some of the other, uh, no code, local tools like Power Automate, power apps and all that stuff. So it was it's kind of like put me in the groove of learning, okay, as I work, and which is what you actually need to do when you get into this, like Microsoft learning as you work. Um, so having to do that and for eventually and getting to Microsoft was actually very helpful. It kind of made the transition smooth. U1 31:00 So okay. That's helpful. U2 31:01 So. U1 31:03 In your transition to full time. 1s Um. How did you get the full time? Did you have to do another set of interviews? What was that U2 31:12 like? Um. Okay. So. 1s Um, after, um, I go on to the internship program, I was given projects. Okay. Um, so when you're done, when you're doing your projects, you basically do a presentation. Okay. Um, you get praised by the manager and all that stuff. So, um, normally, if, um, your manager is satisfied with your work. And continuous service work where you have a chance of getting the role, as you know, full time. Okay. Which was what happened in my case. Okay. I'm getting that role. Uh, I didn't need to interview anymore because I'd probably say three months into an internship, this public interview, which you're working on, you know. Uh, I'm suppose that is, you know, critical and stuff to the operations also. Okay. Um, I didn't get it. An interview after. I just didn't basically box 1s everything from 2s Robyn and I left her and, you know. So based on the experience, what advice would you give intended international students aiming to be successful? U1 32:34 In the US. U2 32:35 Um, okay. U1 32:37 So first. U2 32:39 So first things first. Um, you have to come here knowing exactly what you want to do. Peter. Um. How do you mean? So, say, if your intention is to come here to say study, to be to work in technology or to work in healthcare or wherever it says you want to work, yes. You should have a clear vision of exactly what you want to do. Okay. Um, but first things first. Okay. Um, then when you get over here, um, you also have to put into work. So if you have any deficiencies. Okay. If the things that you need to learn, there are no shortcuts, you basically have to put in the work. Okay. You know, um, learned in the course over here. Knowledge is I say everything because, um, you you stand us by what you know. So, um, if there is there's anything that, you know, in your chosen fields that you know, you're lacking in. Like, um, for instance, if you say you want to be a data engineer because, you know, your skill isn't so good, but that's the way you basically have to work with those who can do these engineering contracts. 1s So, yeah. So if you have, um, knowing what you want to do, knowing what is required of you, the skill sets and. 1s Australian to that level. It is very important that one and two also, when you come here as an international student, their conditions um, touch your visa, right? So if they're supposed to open hours a week or 20 hours a week, okay. Um, if you're not supposed to work outside school, please don't work outside school. Okay. Um, um, make sure you, you know, keep the laws, right? Um. Don't drive imported license. 1s Um, always make sure you're if there's any documentation required of you by the DSO. Um, like, you need to travel. I think he needs to be signed. He needs to do all that. So make sure that you know, you are up to date on your documentation. Um, 2s study hard. Um, then for the internships that you need to practice, uh, you know, questions for interviews and all that stuff. Um. Try and do it. Um. Very important. Make sure you're raising these, you know? Uh, um, of the design format. Uh, and the result is you basically play by the rules and you put in the hard work. 1s Nine out of ten times. You'll actually, you know, look U1 35:28 at it. Did you go for any conference with branded shirts? U2 35:32 Um, yeah. Yeah. If you can call a conference, it is a comfort. Yes. Source 1s reference. But a funny thing is I reference the after I go to the Microsoft. So you've U1 35:43 got the Microsoft Office where you're wearing for Nesby, for the experience. For the experience. So yeah. So networks I talked to other companies. U2 35:50 Yeah. I was looking for a role who would have done this, but I was just sitting here. It was fun to like U1 35:57 talk to you as you are not under U2 35:59 pressure. Exactly. Um, so yeah, it has worked out for me. I mean, I also have athletic. Okay, uh, last year, U1 36:10 but in football, okay, U2 36:11 but it's same thing. Same experience 1s too. Okay. Yeah. So but for people who are looking to get, you know, a full time for an internship offer, those conferences are pretty good places because, you know, recruiters show up and pitch your case and all that stuff. But it's also good for the networking person. Get to know other people, get to know what they do. Other companies. Right. Uh, what their work entails, what it's like working out other places. Yeah, it's more knowledge to have. So it's not only about, you know, getting jobs and stuff. You get to meet, um, other people and some of those things. So what are your U1 36:49 future career goals? U2 36:52 Um, my future career goals. Platinum achievement. Okay, so, 1s uh, I hope to meet probably engineering manager. But, uh. Yeah, it's all U1 37:06 right. It's okay. Yeah. U2 37:08 It's, 1s uh, gone within within the next U1 37:13 decade 1s or within U2 37:15 this decade. I think that's I think that's too U1 37:19 much time. I think you can do it in five years. Okay. Three. 1s Three years because. And then different tracks. So there's the icy track, which is probably what you are individual contributor. Yeah. And then there's the management track. So you can always ask to become, you know, so when you say engineering manager not technical program manager, but an actual U2 37:42 engineer during during. U1 37:43 So they usually have the tracks, they'll tell you, okay, fine. You can tell I want to be on the management track. And that typically is a different. 1s They usually pay managers more stock options. Most used Nike. Um, yeah, that's that's a good ambition. There's nothing wrong. You can do it in U2 38:04 less than ten years. What I'm trying U1 38:06 to say, they don't need to do it in ten years. Ten years? In ten years, it should be retired. U2 38:11 So I don't think you'd want to, but. But reflecting on your entire journey so far, how do you feel about inclusion to lead to be yours? And what does this experience mean to you? Now? I'm an integral part of this journey, so I want to share how exactly I have helped you. U1 38:34 Now I'm being selfish. Yes. U2 38:35 Okay. Yeah. So, um, as I mentioned before, um, choice of school, um, choice of schools. 2s Or helping you during the application process, you know? Right. Um, I think I didn't I think I was supposed to come in the fall of 2021 works, but for some reason I couldn't get in dates. Now I can get dates at the end of the consulates in Lagos. Couldn't give me an interview. Uh, you know, early enough that I was kind of like, losing about like, ah. And everybody who called me like, if, uh, Lagos wasn't, you know, give you a room. Uh. I'm interview. Apply to? Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I did. It actually worked out last season. U1 39:29 So tell 1s us. Yeah. So. Yeah. U2 39:34 Um, U1 39:36 so how do you feel about the decision? So. U2 39:37 Yeah. Um. The decision. Yeah, I kind of, sometimes I kind of wish I had come here earlier. U1 39:44 Everyone says the same thing. Well, we sent him ten years ago, but I wish I did this earlier. I think everyone just do it. Yeah, U2 39:50 but better late than never. Um, don't you do, um, I would say it's the. It has been a better experience. The exposure has been good. Then, you know, getting working from working in the small business in Nigeria to ending up in a place like Microsoft. It was insanely life changing. Experiences like an hour of next year ends get too soon. Yeah, things work up to large scale. You know, it's it's even before that. I always wonder, like, you know, how do you call on, you know. Yeah. U1 40:28 You worked, you know, $2.7 trillion. Yeah. So you know. Yeah. That must feel very different. Well, he U2 40:36 was and he was, he was very I mean, you know, experience it was very educating. You know, it was. Yeah. It was overwhelming at first. Uh, but yeah, the vision grew into you going to work and stuff. So yeah, I'm looking forward to start not full time. Uh, but yeah, it was, it was a good, um, decision for me personally. Um, I would say in the last two years I've learnt a lot. Um, U1 41:10 and all it took was two years to learn this much. Yeah. U2 41:13 Yeah. So you want the next two years? I think so. Uh huh. Good decision. And you're comparing it to where I am right now. To where I was three years ago. In a much better place than okay. Now. U1 41:31 Well, thank you very much. I hope this has been fun for you, as it has been for me. And, uh, yeah, I wish you the very best. U2 41:41 Thank you very much. Right, right over me. Yeah. 8s Thank you for tuning into this episode of Lip Pajama. I hope it brought you valuable insights and stories that resonate with your journey. 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